Ambrosia Community
Recruitment & Justice => Staff Complaints & Misconduct => Resolved Staff Complaints => Topic started by: liaN on October 11, 2014, 08:20:51 pm
-
[AMXBans] ===============================================
[AMXBans] Banned by Admin: ElmErIaChI*VII*
[AMXBans] You can complain about your ban @ www.ambrosia-servers.eu (http://www.ambrosia-servers.eu)
[AMXBans] Reason: 'Swearing'
[AMXBans] Duration: '3 hours'
[AMXBans] Your SteamID: 'STEAM_0:0:573449040'
[AMXBans] Your IP:
[AMXBans] ===============================================
Kicked by Console: You are BANNED. Check your console.
Kicked : You are BANNED. Check you
I didnt do anything wrong, all what i did, is that 2 players kept saying i cheat, i told them f*ck off, this guy ElmErIaChI*VII* asked if im talking to him, i said no, he kicked me first time, then i entered back, on admin chat i told him, they kept saying i cheat, i told them f*ck off, thats all, and f*ck off isnt a swear, it means go away, then he banned for 3 hours ..
-
Checked logs, his story kind of makes sense in there. Bit harsh indeed, you didn't quite deserve a 3 hour ban as you actually got spammed for being a hacker.
Although it is still a swear word though ;)
-
Then, why u are saying f*ck off and not the whole word wothout *? U said its no swear huh? :D
-
Then, why u are saying f*ck off and not the whole word wothout *? U said its no swear huh? :D
Because it doesnt show on the forums lol it shows like that fuck
-
Then, why u are saying f*ck off and not the whole word wothout *? U said its no swear huh? :D
Because it doesnt show on the forums lol it shows like that ****
Then, why shows it **** and not whole word?
-
Then, why u are saying f*ck off and not the whole word wothout *? U said its no swear huh? :D
Because it doesnt show on the forums lol it shows like that ****
Then, why shows it **** and not whole word?
When i tell you f*ck off, do i swear on you? like f*ck you for example..
It means just go away.
Checked logs, his story kind of makes sense in there. Bit harsh indeed, you didn't quite deserve a 3 hour ban as you actually got spammed for being a hacker.
Although it is still a swear word though ;)
No problem ill wait, it was just too harsh, he was going to do the same thing witn another player, he warmed a player with 1 week ban for one word swear, like he never swore, what a player.
-
I would strongly advice you to not use f*ck as it is considered a swearing word by the majority, just because you don't think it's a swearing word doesn't mean others won't take it as one, therefore it's best to just avoid it
-
Then, why u are saying f*ck off and not the whole word wothout *? U said its no swear huh? :D
Because it doesnt show on the forums lol it shows like that ****
Then, why shows it **** and not whole word?
I would strongly advice you to not use f*ck as it is considered a swearing word by the majority, just because you don't think it's a swearing word doesn't mean others won't take it as one, therefore it's best to just avoid it
I don't know about you guys, but I still wouldn't ban a player for 3 hours for just saying "f*ck off" or even "f*ck you" just once.
-
Read my first post please, i said i think itm's way too harsh as well, even though we don't know the story behind them. But i wouldn't say fuck isn't a swear word nor should you use it as a normal word
-
Then, why u are saying f*ck off and not the whole word wothout *? U said its no swear huh? :D
Because it doesnt show on the forums lol it shows like that ****
Then, why shows it **** and not whole word?
I would strongly advice you to not use f*ck as it is considered a swearing word by the majority, just because you don't think it's a swearing word doesn't mean others won't take it as one, therefore it's best to just avoid it
I don't know about you guys, but I still wouldn't ban a player for 3 hours for just saying "f*ck off" or even "f*ck you" just once.
He kicked him once. read the topic.
-
Then, why u are saying f*ck off and not the whole word wothout *? U said its no swear huh? :D
Because it doesnt show on the forums lol it shows like that ****
Then, why shows it **** and not whole word?
I would strongly advice you to not use f*ck as it is considered a swearing word by the majority, just because you don't think it's a swearing word doesn't mean others won't take it as one, therefore it's best to just avoid it
I don't know about you guys, but I still wouldn't ban a player for 3 hours for just saying "f*ck off" or even "f*ck you" just once.
He kicked him once. read the topic.
And i checked logs and he didn't actually repeat it except for saying that he thinks it is not a swear word.
Anyways, i wonder who this admin is as i can't find him in staff list. @presto ?
-
it is @elmeriachi501 , he banned him for swearing, fu**k off is a clear swear and according to rule of dd2, and more important ambrosia general rule , swearing is direct ban, now 3 hours isnt a big deal imho ;)
-
sry for interfere here, but i would like to share my opinion
f*** off is not a big swear, but its punishable. admin did fine, 1st a warning kick, and after that a short ban. im totally agree
but ALSO admins should kick/mute those guys spamming about lian cheating too, and not only ban lian for defending himself
if admins dont handle these kind of situations, players will do by theirselves, and then, troubles are coming
-
I must write my opinion..
Why do you say "F*ck off" if you can say "Go away" - You said it means the same so it is your fault. If someone says you are a cheater, it's the admin job to take care of it. To find whether you cheat or not. But if you break rule because of someone else (and you got nervous of it), it's not their fault it's your Fault.
I agree with the 3 Hour Ban. Plus it has expired already, and I recommend dropping this Complaint.
Regards,
Popay
-
sry for interfere here, but i would like to share my opinion
f*** off is not a big swear, but its punishable. admin did fine, 1st a warning kick, and after that a short ban. im totally agree
but ALSO admins should kick/mute those guys spamming about lian cheating too, and not only ban lian for defending himself
if admins dont handle these kind of situations, players will do by theirselves, and then, troubles are coming
I agree completely on this. Admins should stop that kind a behaviour from others. So it goes vice versa.
I do believe DD2 and Public admins need to be reminded of this.
-
sry for interfere here, but i would like to share my opinion
f*** off is not a big swear, but its punishable. admin did fine, 1st a warning kick, and after that a short ban. im totally agree
but ALSO admins should kick/mute those guys spamming about lian cheating too, and not only ban lian for defending himself
if admins dont handle these kind of situations, players will do by theirselves, and then, troubles are coming
I agree completely on this. Admins should stop that kind a behaviour from others. So it goes vice versa.
I do believe DD2 and Public admins need to be reminded of this.
f**k off is not a big swear word? Sorry guys but I beg to differ.. if you're going to disallow swear words... this should include all swear words....
What words do you guys class as bannable then? sigh
-
@anyo I do believe you should read what Burzum said. It is punishable. It's not a big deal, since there are worse ways to insult someone.
A lot of people say things like "f*** off" when they are pissed off etc. The reasons why this particular player got pissed off was because of the constant abuse he gets from other players.
Admins are there for stopping such occurrences as well, specially if they have checked the player and have acknowledged them as clean player.
-
Let me make this clear from my opinion,
When saying the words "fuck" "whats the fuck" "fuckoff" yet your are not directly swearing agains somebody, but when you say like " fuck you" yet you are directly swearing agains someone which is called insulting which deserve a ban. I would rather keep punishing someone who keeps swearing indirectly than using the ban command,, and when it comes to insulting yet banning are completely justified! Because insulting is completely strictly disallowed
In conclusion both direct swears and indirect swears are not allowed and admins should balance their punishing types between both sides !
-
think you should consider the story before the ban not start talking about classing fkoff as a swear word or w/e lol
the guy was accused by random players and he was just defending himself, maybe the admin should ve thought of calming down the players who wereaccusing lian, instead of acting big like "u talking to me?" lol...really thats wtf..
3 hours is a big deal for someone who didnt deserve it.
-
Context is key here when it comes to swearing/cursing.
Is there a difference between saying 'f***' when say you've been killed and telling someone to 'f*** off', yes. Is it still the Admin's job to caution/warn the player for said word, yes.
In a perfect world every Admin would behave exactly the same, going through the correct steps before taking drastic action (banning a player is drastic in my eyes no matter what the length). However, we are not all robots and so whether an Admin tackles the hecklers first, or @liaN first, only the Admin can answer to.
All that aside, I won't dispute @elmeriachi501 actions, even if a little on the harsh side because technically the rule was broken and warnings ignored.
I personally would have gagged the player for 5 minutes then un-gagged as opposed to banning but that just goes back to how individuals tend to wave there wand.
There is a small but valuable lesson to this and I hope all that read it pick up those lessons:
- Stick to the rules as breaking or trying to bend them do not go unpunished. There is at times players of a young age that join the server and language needs to be kept clean for a good reason.
- Admins have a lesson to learn too - try to keep your Admin powers at bay if possible. Communicate with the player(s), it really helps and I have resolved a lot of tension simply by talking. Banning someone is very serious so make sure it's the absolute last resort because there is always a better way to solve the problem.
On a minor note to end this message, do not see this thread as a negative discussion. It's a healthy debate and a great way to have everyones input. There is still much we can learn from each other and evolve with the times. This will help the community grow and become stronger.
-
I'd behave the same and imo Elme didn't do wrong since he kicked him already which was considered as a warning anyway, it's punishable.
-
I feel like loads of people are having a wrong idea over here.
After the kick, the banned player didn't say **** off again, yet he explained his thoughts behind why **** off isn't swearing. Therefore i would not say he actually ignored the warning and started again.
20:15:40 (Name doesn't matter atm) : Lian WallHack
20:15:47 <STEAM_0:0:573449040><IP> *DEAD*LiaN# : fuck off dude
Admin logs:
L 10/11/2014 - 20:16:45: [plmenu.amxx] Kick: "ElmErIaChI*VII*<8545><STEAM_0:1:40332315><>" kick "LiaN#<9480><STEAM_0:0:573449040><>"
L 10/11/2014 - 20:17:00: [adminchat.amxx] Chat: "LiaN#<9524><STEAM_0:0:573449040><>" chat " whats your problem ?!"
L 10/11/2014 - 20:17:21: [adminchat.amxx] Chat: "LiaN#<9524><STEAM_0:0:573449040><>" chat " he said it 100 times,i told him tell the admin, and he kept saying, then i told him fuck off"
L 10/11/2014 - 20:17:32: [adminchat.amxx] Chat: "LiaN#<9524><STEAM_0:0:573449040><>" chat " fuck off isnt a swear !"
L 10/11/2014 - 20:17:40: [adminchat.amxx] Chat: "LiaN#<9524><STEAM_0:0:573449040><>" chat " fuck off means go away "
I do agree Lian could have replied himself in a nicer manner as well. But that's all there in in the discussion
-
A 3Hours ban for a "Fuck Off" Especally, after he explained it why he said it, is way to harsh. If you ban him for that reason do it for 5 Minutes, and explain him why not to say it.
-
Seems like a quite old administrator, I don't quite understand why he hasn't even attempted to step in when people kept calling Lian a cheater by spectating him and checking if it was true or not. If it wasn't he should've explained it and told them the procedures to follow to report Lian if they still believed he was a cheater.
Instead of that, there is no sign of that and the admin actually punishes quite harshly the player that was simply trying to defend himself, sure not by terms that could be "allowed" but it's not worth an instant kick without warning. Besides that, the ban was completely uncalled for. The player was only explaining his reasoning and instead of telling him that was not allowed (which should've been done before), he banned him..
Also let's be honest guys, we all snap out, we all swear at times whether it's intended or not. We're not perfect and we're all subject to mistakes. Be more tolerant with people, explain them what they do wrong. Punishments and especially a ban is a last resort move in case nothing else succeeds before. As Administrators, don't just shoot the trigger. Be patient and understanding.
On another note, I think someone should call elmeriachi to explain his side of the story seeing how forum activity isn't his forte.
-
Well guys, if we follow dd2 rules, the Guy deserve a ban, what is not specified is the lenght of the ban, and lian please ignore nabz if they say you are a cheater just play ,and have fun, elmer did what he has to do ,the punishement is different between admins, but as long as it is in admin prerogative, and not against rules, it still right
And pimky, admins arent perfect too Btw, and it isnt easy to administrate 32 unperfect players either, following what you said
-
I dont get why people are defending this. We have no set rule for swear words and its done by admin discretion, 3 hours is hardly punishment.
If I remember correctly you have been warned about foul language before on the server, at least by me. I stand by what Elm did. I was about to ban him myself for the same time.
-
I dont get why people are defending this. We have no set rule for swear words and its done by admin discretion, 3 hours is hardly punishment.
If I remember correctly you have been warned about foul language before on the server, at least by me. I stand by what Elm did. I was about to ban him myself for the same time.
Ok, lets go back throw this, first of you all warned me, and i said to someone f*ck you because he kept camping on t base, and he killed me twice in a row in 2 rounds, then you slayed him after he killed me, then you warned me and i said ok sorry.
And the admin who banned for 3 hours he didn't even tell me anything after he kicked me, he just banned me without even answering me ..
Anyway i posted this topic not be unbanned its only 3 hours, i wouldnt be unbanned before these 3 hours passed anyway, and don't consider it as a report, i just wanted the admin to reply his opinion thats all.
Thanks,
-
I totally agree with what Presto wrote above.
1 side note; Due to the boosted servers, there is an endless supply of unexperienced players. 50% of them have trouble talking English or playing their mission within 2 minutes. We cant slay or gag 10 players every round, therefor I am a bit less strict last week on slaying when bomb has to be planted or defused.
I urge all D2 admins to try and play a lot this month, server boosting also bring a cheater in every 30-60 mins.
greetz
Legion
-
I think he got banned again by Lacoste for swearing for 3 days now, see? lian is the corrupted one, Elm you did well. 8)
-
I think he got banned again by Lacoste for swearing for 3 days now, see? lian is the corrupted one, Elm you did well. 8)
Whats your problem dude? your blind or something ?!?!
He banned me by mistake, and for 1 day, and im unbanned.
You have problem with reading.
I'd behave the same and imo Elme didn't do wrong since he kicked him already which was considered as a warning anyway, it's punishable.
You have problem with understanding mate, i suggest you take some english lessons, we explained 3-4 times, not me only by logos aswell, he didn't warn me, he just kicked me, then when i came back i talked to him on admin chat, he didnt answer, he just banned me.
-
Context is key here when it comes to swearing/cursing.
Is there a difference between saying 'f***' when say you've been killed and telling someone to 'f*** off', yes. Is it still the Admin's job to caution/warn the player for said word, yes.
In a perfect world every Admin would behave exactly the same, going through the correct steps before taking drastic action (banning a player is drastic in my eyes no matter what the length). However, we are not all robots and so whether an Admin tackles the hecklers first, or @liaN first, only the Admin can answer to.
All that aside, I won't dispute @elmeriachi501 actions, even if a little on the harsh side because technically the rule was broken and warnings ignored.
I personally would have gagged the player for 5 minutes then un-gagged as opposed to banning but that just goes back to how individuals tend to wave there wand.
There is a small but valuable lesson to this and I hope all that read it pick up those lessons:
- Stick to the rules as breaking or trying to bend them do not go unpunished. There is at times players of a young age that join the server and language needs to be kept clean for a good reason.
- Admins have a lesson to learn too - try to keep your Admin powers at bay if possible. Communicate with the player(s), it really helps and I have resolved a lot of tension simply by talking. Banning someone is very serious so make sure it's the absolute last resort because there is always a better way to solve the problem.
On a minor note to end this message, do not see this thread as a negative discussion. It's a healthy debate and a great way to have everyones input. There is still much we can learn from each other and evolve with the times. This will help the community grow and become stronger.
Things would be much different if admins considered adminship responsibility instead of power. Some guys unfortunately(not talking about elmer) consider adminship a prize for their activity.
Being admin should not make you think different, you should behave ALMOST like a normal player, because if you were one and you saw another one swearing the first thing you'd say would be "calm down mate, don't swear", and supporting my opinion once again, I'll say that the punishment was way too harsh, and yes(an answer for some guys here), even a ban length of 3 hours does matter. I work 9 hours a day and I have like 6-7 free hours(I sleep 2 of them) what am I supposed to do if I get banned 3 hours for such an incident?
Well guys, if we follow dd2 rules, the Guy deserve a ban, what is not specified is the lenght of the ban, and lian please ignore nabz if they say you are a cheater just play ,and have fun, elmer did what he has to do ,the punishement is different between admins, but as long as it is in admin prerogative, and not against rules, it still right
And pimky, admins arent perfect too Btw, and it isnt easy to administrate 32 unperfect players either, following what you said
Sorry, I have to disagree, if by saying "the punishement is different between admins" you mean that I can get banned 1 day by (let's say)Pim for saying "f*ck you" and 1 hour by Legion then something's really wrong. There must be some standards about the punishments, you know that very well :)
Anyway, we talked way too much here, I guess this can be locked ^^
-
i guess we all agree
lian deserves a ban ¿? yes coz he swore, he was kicked and then banned (maybe a bit harsh, but its on rules)
but players accusing lian for hacks should be warned too, or even gagged
-
Context is key here when it comes to swearing/cursing.
Is there a difference between saying 'f***' when say you've been killed and telling someone to 'f*** off', yes. Is it still the Admin's job to caution/warn the player for said word, yes.
In a perfect world every Admin would behave exactly the same, going through the correct steps before taking drastic action (banning a player is drastic in my eyes no matter what the length). However, we are not all robots and so whether an Admin tackles the hecklers first, or @liaN first, only the Admin can answer to.
All that aside, I won't dispute @elmeriachi501 actions, even if a little on the harsh side because technically the rule was broken and warnings ignored.
I personally would have gagged the player for 5 minutes then un-gagged as opposed to banning but that just goes back to how individuals tend to wave there wand.
There is a small but valuable lesson to this and I hope all that read it pick up those lessons:
- Stick to the rules as breaking or trying to bend them do not go unpunished. There is at times players of a young age that join the server and language needs to be kept clean for a good reason.
- Admins have a lesson to learn too - try to keep your Admin powers at bay if possible. Communicate with the player(s), it really helps and I have resolved a lot of tension simply by talking. Banning someone is very serious so make sure it's the absolute last resort because there is always a better way to solve the problem.
On a minor note to end this message, do not see this thread as a negative discussion. It's a healthy debate and a great way to have everyones input. There is still much we can learn from each other and evolve with the times. This will help the community grow and become stronger.
Dropped.